Welcome to this special recap of Your Pharmacy Career podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment - Australia’s experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years.
In this powerful episode, host Kristi Lee Patterson speaks with Deni Salmon, Pharmacist in Charge at TerryWhite Chemmart Tuggerah and co-founder of Queer Pharmacists of Australia.
Episode Summary
When Deni Salmon stepped into a pharmacy for the first time as a transgender woman, she had no idea the pharmacist behind the counter would spark her journey into healthcare. It wasn’t the dispensing of medication that changed her—it was the simple act of being asked, “Is Denzel your preferred name?” That moment of validation, compassion, and human recognition altered the course of her life and led her to become the Pharmacist in Charge at TerryWhite Chemmart Tuggerah, and more recently, the co-founder of Queer Pharmacists of Australia.
In this episode of Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, Deni shares an incredibly raw and powerful story—one that covers personal transformation, healthcare inequities, identity, and the urgent need for inclusivity in pharmacy. From overcoming substance use and navigating a disjointed healthcare system, to launching a national community group for LGBTQIA+ pharmacy professionals, Deni’s message is clear: visibility, empathy and safe spaces are not optional—they’re essential.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
Lived Experience Shapes Practice: Deni’s journey as a transgender woman has made her a more compassionate and inclusive pharmacist, reminding us of the vital role empathy plays in healthcare.
Small Gestures, Big Impact: A simple recognition of her preferred name by a pharmacist marked the beginning of her pharmacy career—a powerful reminder of how pharmacy professionals can shape lives through respect and kindness.
From Struggle to Strength: Deni candidly speaks about her battles with substance use, mental health, and the intersectionality of queer identity and healthcare. Her resilience is both a personal triumph and a call to action for more compassionate care.
Queer Pharmacists of Australia: Co-founded by Deni, this community offers a safe and inclusive space for LGBTQIA+ pharmacy professionals to share experiences, access mentorship, and build advocacy.
Gaps in Pharmacy Education: Deni highlights a systemic lack of cultural competence and queer-inclusive education in pharmacy training—urging the profession to shift inclusivity from afterthought to standard practice.
Representation Matters: From Indigenous health advocacy to trans rights, Deni is living proof that pharmacists can be changemakers—not just in medicine, but in the broader fight for equality and belonging.
Safe Spaces Are Not Optional: The Queer Pharmacists of Australia group is intentionally exclusive to LGBTQIA+ members to foster genuine support and psychological safety, especially for those not “out” at work.
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Pharmaceutical Society of Australia (PSA)
Proudly brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation, and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au.
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Full Episode Transcript
Speaker 2 (00:00.302)
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Ravens Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession, from expert advice to inspiring success stories. We're here to spark ideas, guide your career and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.
Hi everyone and welcome to your Pharmacy Career Podcast. I'm your host, Krysti-Lee Patterson. And today we have a very special guest joining us, Deni Salmon. Deni is a pharmacist in charge at TerryWhite Chemmart Tuggerah, but her story is so much more than just pharmacy. It's about resilience, transformation and advocacy.
Deni is a early career pharmacist and a proud member of both the transgender and LGBTQIA plus community and a fierce advocate for Indigenous health and cultural. She has her own lived experiences, both personal and professional, to push for a more inclusive and compassionate healthcare system. So enough from me. Let's actually welcome Deni to the podcast.
chance.
Speaker 3 (01:18.542)
Well hello, thanks for having me, Frisbee lady. How are you?
I am well, thank you. And I'm so excited to chat to you because I feel like you're really going to bring, yeah, just a real authentic way for this podcast. So I'm really excited.
Me too, and I'm also excited because... ...to this later in the... I... ...or like... ...finally be able to see you. Although still online, but have this...
together. It's going to be so fun. Thank you for joining me.
Thank you so much. I'm very excited to now we have just about half an hour to chat. We can go a bit over time. That's okay. But I really want to start with your personal story because it's such a powerful one. And in the intro, I mentioned that you have your own lived experience being part of the transgender and LGBTQIA plus community. So I really
Speaker 2 (02:18.798)
would like to start there if that's okay with you and wanted if you could share a little bit about what your lived experience is in that.
Yeah, yeah. So, I guess... self.
For myself, transitioning was like a deeply personal and transformative journey.
It wasn't just about horny how I looked. It was about aligning who I was, aligning.
who I was inside with how I move through the world. So how people would react but ultimately it was about choosing to live authentically.
Speaker 3 (02:45.87)
first
And once I did, everything started to fall into place. I'm also a very strong willed personality that a lot of my friends that I had like when I set my mind to things, I do it. So when I had finally discovered myself, it's always that joke like, you're. But once I figured it out and I had found who I was, I was already to that.
and strong.
My friends at the time would joke that
Speaker 1 (03:07.222)
and you know, run around you before you knew.
Speaker 1 (03:15.31)
straight into social transition. I was feeding myself with...
makeup and I was getting dressed up for 10. So there was hesitancy but I can go also living out.
then it was the best part about it for sure.
That just makes me so happy to hear that the people around you felt like this was maybe happening. when you went through the transition, it's like, yeah, of course.
They made a joke about actually never came out and there's a homosexual man. It was before my transition. It was kind of just assumed. But then came out, which is so funny that people have to come out with their dad and we're just walking through my hometown in Maitland. So much more sense.
Speaker 3 (03:53.324)
when I found you sad but when I had come in with my
He was like, oh, that makes sense. And then we just kept walking. Like, it was just such a, it was a beautiful experience. But like that moment in particular was like it.
Beautiful moment, I've got great pay.
I have it with me from Rare Bath, so it's good.
That's so nice. You made an interesting comment though. Like you just said about it's the wither, like you have to come out. And I kind of have thought about this. It's like, yeah, I didn't have a moment where it's like, I have to sit down my mum and dad and like, okay, I think I'm straight. Like it's such an odd thing. But I don't know. And even though we're both millennials, like
Speaker 3 (04:31.512)
Yeah
Speaker 2 (04:38.666)
am a little bit older than you. So I don't know if it is this something that you think the younger generation is probably just not even really going to do. It's just going to be a little.
Yeah, I'm the pharmacy uni students, so I'm not in with the younger crowd.
I yeah, not like, apart from like working.
work really
I would assume from media these days that it's a lot less common and probably not done as much. But I also and I understand that coming out is
Speaker 1 (05:10.786)
I am aware.
integral part of people's journeys. need to do to create that space for themselves. I touched on before, I have a great family and that extends to extended families. Parents and parents supportive. have a heart-heart. There are multiple facets to everyone's lifestyles and their communities or their families that
and like if that's what
and go ahead. Like I have a great
Speaker 3 (05:27.074)
like my grandparents and aunties and uncles, like they're very, it was all a bit of, but I can understand that.
Speaker 3 (05:40.568)
They might need that to happen, but maybe.
I know, think exploring things isn't as questioned as much anymore. know, everyone knows a Rupul's Drag Race Seeing men in makeup now, and 2024 on YouTube, it was so shocking. And no real questions. So I think there's more autonomy to express yourself and be yourself. And if
more like I guess
Speaker 3 (05:57.048)
But now anyone can do it.
So if you need that label, go ahead. Or if you need a map, go ahead. I think, oh, I'd like to think that the young gen, or at least even millennials, I think, as well, are very, like, bit... Like, you know, it's not that big.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (06:15.343)
and share it with.
That's exactly right. No, it's interesting that we start on, on this topic and people listening. The next question I asked, will make sense as to why I started with this personal story around new transitioning. And that's because when we were discussing offline, your experience with the healthcare system as a transgender person was actually a major factor in you becoming a pharmacist. So normally in the podcast, the first question I asked someone is.
why did you become a pharmacist? But I think I had to ask the other question first. yeah, tell us a little bit about that experience.
If we saw it off, ultimately it was fine.
they got me into pharmacy which I think is very common for most people. I wasn't being 14 and working in pharmacy.
Speaker 3 (07:05.294)
I'm pulling into the row, but
My first experiences seeking gender-affirming care were actually quite positive, lasting impact on me. So, is a program called Pacific Clinic, is also for sexual health screening and they also do gender-affirming care there because a lot of the doctors have JK backgrounds and sexual health. And help with affirming care.
It's like a Plains parent who had been a
Speaker 3 (07:31.214)
feedback and they go and they have that kind of play that
I knew about that just through being in the queer community and sexual screening and so it's very common. The queer community and we can touch on that a bit later.
up and it's easy to talk about.
had a doctor who was amazing. I love her to pieces. still see her. She always dressed me. She would just be my Karen, throw me back to my GP. But like they have such a beautiful relationship, we can never
We get rid of each other.
Speaker 3 (08:03.182)
She's beautiful, like she'll just send me a portfolio form and I'll watch it and I'll be oh you're blind?
What are you being up to?
It's so nice.
Yeah.
And so one time I went to my workplace at the time so went to JD Hi-Fi at Charlestown Square and there was a Terry White downstairs. My prescriptions for estrogen and cyproteroin because I hadn't studied hormones yet but I was transitioning and
Speaker 3 (08:22.816)
and I went to film my for that actually trying to quickly touch on that. Can be some which is basically
people who don't know the social transition, once full transition using she her pronouns are a pronoun that suits the gender identity you want.
and I'm dressing in a certain way that gives you feel like you are on an outing. Doing that for a couple months and I decided that was a hormone wrap. I am so happy to be back. At the time my facial hair was growing in like a five o'clock shadow at 10 a.m. already after you showed up and I used to think I was like the
euphoria to you or make you feel you are presenting what's inside outside scale. So I've been to London for and then I definitely wanted to go to the and I got to the pharmacy to hand in the books. I took a morning walk. My hair was growing
Speaker 1 (09:11.95)
day most important in the world. was so important to me for being so honest and forward. You know, I approached the council, I a pharmacist called my surname and they were, was like, I'm going to grab the scripts. I was home, I was talking to my doctor. I don't even talk to the pharmacist.
family person in and like I appreciate that part of the thing so... and I... I to save my script and didn't think of it and then... and I just... okay here I go.
Speaker 3 (09:36.826)
such literally and then the pharmacist was like it was Denzel your preferred name so my birth name's Denzel and I was just
What did you have, Rod?
Speaker 1 (09:46.774)
taken aback because I'd never been asked that. But that small moment completely changed how I saw my own transition as well. It made me realize becoming a more authentic version of myself didn't always require legal changes or major milestones to set.
because I realized that.
Speaker 3 (10:00.27)
And it was just, it just happened and it was just
as simple as a pharmacist taking a moment to acknowledge me who I was.
And at the time I was just like, Oh, I'm ending things. I had it.
since I was a kid. I'll just give it a go. So now it is all now, you know, into Medicare.
I couldn't see myself as like a Karen or something like that. it had to still be similar to my... But of course, every experience was as affirming and...
Speaker 1 (10:22.782)
or life or
Speaker 1 (10:27.298)
You know, not everyone
As I continued navigating the healthcare system, I encountered providers who lack the knowledge or sensitivity to support myself or either the experiences from other trained patients. At that time, it like an inconvenience rather than a patient, but that could be and what too often was became motivation. Pharmacists who created those moments of recognition and care, like I had this experience firsthand, how much that mattered.
I also did healthcare.
Speaker 3 (10:44.142)
At times I felt rather than contrast between what health care
Speaker 3 (10:52.942)
I wanted to be the kind of
Speaker 1 (11:03.214)
you know, drop in the water ripples were starting to get bigger so to speak.
Yeah, I was just thinking like, with your, I guess, career journey, and then also your personal journey, and your transition note as well. You didn't just all of sudden just decide, I'm just going to become a pharmacist. Like this is just so obvious. There were a number of you were studying something else and you were trying a few different things. And that also at some of the people that you met.
during that process had a big impact on your life. And so I wonder if you could talk a little bit now about your time at university and the influence of some of the people that you met.
Yeah, so when I decided to go to university, I don't know, I think it's the same for you because you're in New South Wales so we had ATARs, right? I think it's around, I'm not sure.
Lucy, yeah, like, was you-a-i, not...
Speaker 3 (12:09.422)
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Nothing, so you feel like an old person.
Not at all.
got my ATA at high school. Like, I did care for high school. I loved the social side of it. I stepped around to year 12 because I had the Nespers. I didn't want to leave. I had done chemistry, bio, maths, English. I guess for me, that's like the run of the mill subjects to do in Australian high school. And then finished and got like a 41 ATA or something. I don't even think I opened it. Like I think I just was just like, I'm just gonna leave that envelope.
Bye!
Speaker 1 (12:47.764)
the side and then I yeah I didn't open it until years later when I decided actually maybe I do care about
I was like, maybe I actually...
There's something there for me. So I went to the university, they had their open day. There was the Open Foundation program, which is a bridging course. At the time, was like, there was one for 18 plus. And then once you were 20 something plus, you had to do Open Foundation. It was a year course. And I was like, look, I'm just going to do it. I had met heaps of different people in my life. To that point, where I knew kind of
what I wanted to angle myself towards. So I'd spoken to lots of teachers, I'd spoken to lots of social workers, and I knew I wanted to do something activism. And I ended up doing, there's four courses over the two semesters, so you do two each semester. But one that I did in both semesters was my Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander studies. And that's when I met Auntie Trish, who I've spoken to about off the pod before. But Auntie Trish was a
Spike until
Speaker 1 (13:54.572)
She was someone who taught that course and she from the very beginning took me on her wing. She nurtured me at such a crucial time in my life because it was also when I started to transition. And because I was still growing into my identity as a transgender woman, I truly felt like Trish had my best interest at heart. And that year she really guided me from being a young woman into a strong woman. And the first course I did teaching alongside her
Thank
Speaker 1 (14:24.558)
and then I was like, I don't think I can do kids like that's just too much and then I was like maybe I'll go into psychology and then I was learning it like the map spirit, mask experience like you
Yes, yes. Now at all. Too deep.
This is
I was then at a crossroads and then a dual degree of development studies and global indigenous studies came up. So I got into that, didn't really love it, had a few issues, which I know we'll discuss later on in the podcast. And then kind of transitioned down pharmacy, fell into pharmacy kind of in that like in a very unnatural coming from like a sociology background. So I'm going straight into healthcare.
I'm for that.
Speaker 1 (15:13.516)
I really think the interactions I was having in healthcare reminded me that when I was back in high school doing chemistry and bio that I think there was always a healthcare aspect that I wanted to tackle. And I was finally like coming to that point where I didn't know if I was edgy enough to be a nurse or smart enough to be a doctor. But then I found pharmacists who are just like a mix of both in the best way. And I was like, okay, let's just like throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.
empathy
Speaker 2 (15:42.286)
I love that. And do you know what? When you mentioned about the ATAR result that you had. So when I was in year 12, my UAAI, I was quite embarrassed to tell people what I got. So I actually got 63. And I think they put so much pressure on you when you're young that it's like, you've got to make this decision now or you make the wrong decision. You're going to ruin your life or something.
My
Speaker 1 (16:08.873)
I don't know much about your experience.
was going through pharmacy, like there where I was a mature ed student, which is so insane to me because I was early 20s. And I like best friends I made in pharmacy were like themselves and I remember talking to one of them and they're Oh, my eight has 98.99 or something. And I was
like so hard on
Speaker 3 (16:31.81)
like, like,
Honestly, take a chill pill.
Yep, no, definitely can relate to that. yeah, it just kind of shows that sometimes like that moment in time doesn't define who you are and what you're capable of. And yeah, things that were happening in my life at that time. we'd moved states and I wasn't happy where I was. And so basically the one thing I could control was my brain. I was like, okay, well, this is my form of rebellion because I was too much of a nerd to like drink alcohol yet.
Yeah.
I'm just going to not study. yeah, it's just if there's any or anyone listening that is maybe applying for university or feeling a bit like, they could have done better. I don't know, once you're out of year 12, like no one cares about that number. Even Hermi is asking you like...
Speaker 3 (17:29.674)
Literally, yeah
like another thing and I think you'll find this relatable. the end of your 20s you also realize that no one has either like you go to uni late or whatever like I find some people, maybe I was guilty of it when I was 18 like oh an older person at uni like why didn't they do first but then now after being mature age finally being a pharmacist I've had so many life experiences already.
like once you get to
Speaker 3 (17:50.766)
Do it.
Speaker 1 (17:59.662)
It's just so exciting. And like, I want to do it again. Like, I'm just like, Oh, let's do round four or round five. Like, let's go back to uni. And I, genuinely, and this is probably silly because obviously, I think, I don't know, people probably laugh at it, but I'm excited to be 30. I'm excited for like, years I was a baby, I had restrictions, whether it be like driving restrictions or drinking and stuff like, you know, before you're 18 or 16. And now it's like, nothing. I can be 30.
20 years.
Speaker 1 (18:29.122)
I've got a career that can back me up and I can spend my money on as many games or silly things that I wanted that I wanted to and now I can explore so many avenues. I'm excited. It's really exciting.
Pharmacy Daily is a proud supporter of your pharmacy career podcast. If you're in the pharmacy world, it's a great resource to stay up to date with the latest industry news. To subscribe, just head to pharmacydaily.com.au to get the newsletter delivered straight to your inbox. Yeah, I love that. And I think you're right. I feel like when I'm not yet hitting your thirties, it's very like you're just very comfortable in yourself. Well, that's how I.
feel like my early twenties. Yeah, it's weird. I was considered a mature age student as well. There's nothing mature about me. no. my gosh. And I hope no one, none of the photos or videos ever resurface of what we got up to. But yeah, it's, it's funny that they, they called mature age students. Now, as you were chatting, mentioned about
literally
Theoretism.
Speaker 3 (19:27.246)
You
Speaker 3 (19:33.23)
I love it.
Speaker 2 (19:41.454)
some of the challenges that you went through when you were at university and you met Auntie Trish. And I wondered if it would be okay if we kind of dug a little bit deeper about what was happening in your life at that time. And yeah, how did you overcome some of those challenges?
So I guess...
Sup
Short but detailed picture of what we're talking about is I definitely went through a period in my life because I was struggling with so many layers of identity, rejection, uncertainty about my future. I felt disconnected from myself. I was just going through that really existing in the world as myself yet. And then substance use became a way to quiet me down. And for a while it worked, or at least I thought
nations that
Speaker 3 (20:34.574)
enough.
and by substances, mean, you know, illicit drugs and alcohol. And it wasn't just personal struggles either. Especially nightlife often revolve around drinking and drug culture, because historically, they were the only places we had to be ourselves.
creative spaces.
Pharmacy Daily is a proud supporter of Your Pharmacy Career podcast.
If you're in the pharmacy world, it's a great resource to stay up to date with the latest industry news. To subscribe, just head to pharmacydaily.com.au to get the newsletter delivered straight to your inbox.
Speaker 3 (20:54.222)
gonna end it.
Yes, I'm like a dense snail. Nobody's sight like that.
being drag queens and you know, although there is day drag, drag queens reading in libraries, it's usually just a nighttime event, right? And this after hours, or so to speak. And so when you mix that with the stress of navigating just life, that sometimes isn't always welcoming. It's easy to see why so many people in the LGBTQIA community turn to substances as a coping mechanism. I think just an area
I it was area.
and in time where for myself, I'm just trying to think about how to word this. Sorry, I had some notes that really helped me. During the time when I had the substance abuse issues and I was in my early 20s and like I said, it was kind of where I was in the community I was in, it was an easy thing to access and be a part of. And growing up,
Speaker 1 (21:55.104)
ashamed or trying to hide myself at such a young age. I think really pushed down a lot as well. So was just like a lot was building up, building up. And then I think I got to, you know, one point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. This isn't going to lead to a fulfilling life. You often see it, I guess history repeating itself with like, you know, the 1980s and the HIV AIDS epidemic and
that
building out building
Speaker 3 (22:23.726)
people.
for losing each other to this epidemic that everyone thought was just like a gay problem at the time. And then the 90s, it was still going. And then the early 2000s, was like, Sydney was really big for ice and meth. And then we were losing more queer people because they were doing too many drugs to try and fill a void. And I was just kind of like, I think I'm sick of not seeing older LGBTQI people around. And it was sad.
we all weren't getting that compassion that we all needed. And it was also at that time, I found in this beautiful community, although there's some issues with it, ways to express myself. Cause at the time I thought that I was just a man, a homosexual, I was really femme, flamboyant, found it fun. I grew up in Maitland, which was like a rural area.
you
amazing and it portrays so much
Speaker 1 (23:44.04)
queer community, the trans side, the homosexual side, And then when I was old enough to do Mardi Gras, I met all these people and I was like, who are these people? And they were the trans women, the pioneers that really put our rights and stuff like that. And then it was like drag, it's just drag, it's just a dress code. We're using that to live their authentic selves. But then I realized there was people who started
that.
Speaker 3 (23:53.208)
people.
Speaker 3 (23:57.134)
Cheers. Right.
Speaker 3 (24:06.954)
and a lot of people
Speaker 1 (24:12.61)
doing the drag and they were still glam and they were women. And they were, they were women, trans women. I went, that's, that makes sense. Actually, I think I figured it out now. And starting that hormone therapy was life changing, obviously. And it was finally being able to breathe after holding it in for years. And it wasn't so much just about, you know, the physical changes.
It was about seeing myself finally in the mirror and feeling a sense of alignment between who I was inside and who or how the world saw me. But at the same time, it was bittersweet because I knew how much time I had lost. I transitioned in my early twenties and that's quite young, like I'm still young. But as I approached 30, I carry the lived experience of growing up hiding, spending my teenage years in early adulthood, expressing who I really was.
now
Speaker 1 (25:05.004)
doing silly things, whatever people may say. And that kind of prolonged distress takes a toll on mental health. And we can see that so clearly in the research today. Trans people who are forced to wait for care experience significantly worse mental health outcomes. And I know firsthand how truly that is. I'm really proud of myself for getting out of it.
sweet of you as well to mention that it's topic that I also want to push it out and make it just like a normal topic, just something that I can talk about in passing because then I will hear and instead of having that stigma attached to it, they'll be like, if I'm dealing with XYZ, there's at least a way I can get out doing XYZ or something like that. And with the media today, that's why I feel such deep.
people
Speaker 1 (25:56.558)
compassion for my younger self and trans kids today. Because I know how different my life could have been if I had access to a firm, healthcare earlier. Although I would never change my life for what I have now, because this is amazing. And I've lived such a great life. But like I just, I feel so strongly in protecting the trans youth now so they don't have to necessarily go through the same route that I did because it could have ended in a negative or a bad way. And like I said, we lose any
so many
of our queer community to mental health, drug abuse, substance abuse, whatever it is. So I really think that it's time to re-center ourselves and just focus on that, like gender affirming care is just not about medical treatments. It's suicide prevention, really. And it gives the chance to grow up without the weight of dysphoria crushing them, leading them to maybe a journey similar to mine.
trans kids
Speaker 1 (26:55.886)
care about the well-being of kids. We have to make sure they have access to this care as early as possible.
really interesting and it's giving me something to really think about because we really have open and honest discussion and chat sometimes and I ask questions about things that I'm not aware of or like how to like I just want to understand more and I've got a stepdaughter, she's 14 and she has had friends that might want to identify as something different to what they were.
born with and that's been really challenging because it's, yeah, it's just something that is so new. And yeah, but hearing your story about gender affirming care doesn't have to just be about medicine. I think that's the first time I've actually really heard that. And I didn't really think of it in that way. And yeah, letting, I guess, kids be kids and like it doesn't
Yeah, just maybe think about it a little bit differently.
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:04.332)
And I wholly understand it's my personal experience that I can understand it's a bit more and I can like, I can try my best to share it. But I find it's very common in the rest of, you know, the LGBTQIA community as well. Like mine is the gender affirming care, being trans, but then for a lot of the, homosexual or like, know, gay, lesbian, bi people.
they're also keeping this like thing inside them that they can't share and then they miss out on certain experiences like going out at what do call prom in Australia? don't even think we have it but like going to formal and this is weird and having that sort of distribution stuff like that where we have to hold a lot back as well and I think
Liberate.
Speaker 3 (28:54.68)
That's another thing in the creation
Your community is that when we're 19, 20 onwards, and you're finding ourselves, we're kind of living our youth again, or at least our young adult life, because you've been held up to this like binary to not speak about ourselves the way we truly are because of stigmas. And then you find this community, and you're just like, Whoa, this is great. Like, I'm going to go balls to the walls and enjoy it. But it can't be so big, like slippery slope. Yeah. Makes sense.
I hope that.
for French today.
Yeah, I think so. And something that comes out of it for me is that every, it's very individualized experience for everyone. And I think. Bringing back to pharmacists and the impact we can have on people is yeah, I guess not assuming things about people and just having a bit more empathy, I think.
Speaker 2 (29:52.472)
But that just is the case for anyone coming into the pharmacy, right? Like we should always lead with that. And so I guess from your perspective now as a pharmacist, you are a pharmacist and you also have lived experience of being a part of, I guess you could say a minority group in transgender community. What are some of the biggest gaps that you see in the healthcare system and maybe specifically pharmacy?
That thing.
Speaker 2 (30:22.734)
in treating people in these communities and maybe how can we do it better.
I think one of
the biggest barriers is stigma from both outside our communities and within. We're already receiving discrimination from outside of the community. And then when we're going to a healthcare setting and we're feeling that discrimination again, it's always going to make it incredibly difficult. We're being judged again, twice as hard. And then compounding on that, there are also the mental health aspects for a lot of LGBTQIA people who've
struggle with anxiety, depression or PTSD. And if they don't have access to that mental health care or any sort of health care, it's just going to reduce their quality of life, which isn't great. That's why harm reduction and compassionate care are so important. And you mentioned it earlier, like just giving people the empathy when they come into the pharmacy, no matter who they are. It's sort of judging people. It's just asking what they need, when to ask what they need.
how you can help them fix whatever it is that they're running from maybe. What do they actually need? I think that's how we can start making real change. communities, so including the Indigenous community, face significant health disparities, often due to systemic issues within healthcare itself. Indigenous Australians continue to experience poorer health outcomes compared to our non-Indigenous Australians. And unfortunately, like we have closing the gap, which
Speaker 3 (31:36.962)
else I think.
Speaker 1 (31:55.756)
continues to be like missing the targets and it's really like unfortunate and upsetting. And then there's the particularly trans people who struggle with barriers to accessing that affirming healthcare which we've spoken about. I think for me it's personal. I've seen firsthand how easily someone can fall through the cracks when the healthcare system isn't designed for them. As a pharmacist, I can either be a part of the problem or part of the solution. Obviously solution. Hello?
So, I'm going to...
I want to make sure everyone of my patients feel seen, heard and supported when they step into pharmacy. It's not just about dispensing medication. It's about creating an environment where patients feel safe enough to ask questions that they need to when they know they can not be judged when talking to me and when their identity is respected without hesitation. also wanted to point out something that I find important is that the biggest gap
No they-
Speaker 1 (32:56.31)
as a lack of cultural competence, particularly in pharmacy. You know, we received training on many areas of healthcare. Diabetes management is a big one. Antibiotic stewardship is another big one. Cardiovascular disease is like the biggest because we need our heart, I guess, maybe bringing our heart into it would be really important as well. But when it comes to marginalized communities, we're expected to figure it out ourselves. And that's, I don't think that's good enough. I think
All right. An emotional.
Speaker 1 (33:26.156)
I would love to see a shift from inclusivity as an afterthought to inclusivity as standard practice. Healthcare shouldn't be something that people feel they have to fight for, but it should be accessible, affirming, and welcoming from the very start for every patient. When we talk about gender affirming care, for example, it's not comparing to something extra or specialized, when really it should be as routine as any other aspect of patient center, the same applies to Indigenous healthcare.
I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (33:53.89)
Cultural safety shouldn't be an optional module at university, just that you have to tick off. It should be deeply embedded in halfway practice.
Absolutely. I completely agree. yeah, actually really interesting that we don't get that education in the way that we probably should have. I can't speak for some of the programs now because things have probably changed, hopefully for the better. But especially Australia is one of the most multicultural countries in Australia. And so there's just so many different groups of people that
I know.
Speaker 2 (34:31.191)
come into our pharmacies every day and just to have maybe a little bit more understanding could certainly help.
And just on that note, on this year's Mardi Gras, there was a presenter from the Aurora Nation, so Sydney area, and they mentioned like, we have the oldest living peoples in the world, like our Indigenous Australians, Aboriginals are the oldest, like civilization that we're currently aware of. it is, period, at the moment. And also lots of Indigenous societies,
See you.
like, you moldy culture, Indian, like Americans and stuff like that.
Like the concept of.
Speaker 1 (35:15.15)
Transgender wasn't even like a foreign one to them. They celebrated people who were two-spirit or in our Indigenous communities, know, brother boys and sister girls and stuff like that. And it's just so interesting that we have this beautiful foundation of the oldest living, like, peoples and then we continue just to ignore them or ignore it. And I feel like we could just build on so much if we just stick back to that. Yeah.
More
Speaker 1 (35:45.006)
I find that beautiful and when I heard that I was like, that's amazing.
Yeah, absolutely. It really is. so with you've got so much passion and I really love it and I find it really inspiring. And I think sometimes it's hard when you have lots of passion because sometimes you want to change the world, right? And you want to change it now. And that can also be really exhausting. And maybe I'm talking about myself here as well. But I think everything that you've experienced and everything that we've talked about,
No, I hear you.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (36:17.934)
so far in the podcast. I think that has definitely helped you to identify that there is a bit of a gap, especially in pharmacy. And I think one way that you talked earlier on that you a little bit of an activist and last year you actually founded or co-founded, I should say, the Queer Pharmacists of Australia group and
I guess the question I've got written down is that what inspired you to create this space? But I think it's pretty obvious after this conversation. Yeah, if you could maybe just for people that maybe haven't even heard of this group, what is it and maybe why is it important to you and what are you trying to achieve by having
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:04.462)
That's great.
100%. Yes, it was bound to happen. Right? It was bound to happen at some point and it happened fast. Realized that, you know, there were a lot of LGBTQIA responses out there, but we weren't connected. And I was making posts on different forums, like PSA Early Career Pharmacists about my lived experiences. And I was getting, you know, private DMs more so than comments on that.
You are so very
Speaker 3 (37:14.178)
Yeah, I
Speaker 1 (37:32.782)
from people with similar lived experiences, of people who are part of that queer community. And I realized many of us were facing the same struggles, whether there was like experiencing discrimination at work, lacking mentorship, or feeling like we had to downplay parts of ourselves to fit in. It became clear that there was no dedicated space where we could come together, support each other and openly discuss unique challenges we face, both as professionals and as patients in the healthcare system.
So, said I co-founded with...
the beautiful Eleanor and we moderated this Alex and Erin and we created the queer pharmacists of Australia. Our motto reflects exactly what we stand for. It was created as a safe space for pharmacists across the area. Identify in the community to connect, share, discuss top development to queer healthcare within the pharmacy profession. I also would like to point out, although it does say pharmacists, it's inclusive of
too late.
Speaker 3 (38:14.19)
Also...
Speaker 3 (38:17.954)
Australia who I within
Speaker 1 (38:32.298)
of every aspect of pharmacy. Like we have assistants, team members. It was very, I guess, maybe close-minded to say pharmacist because I was, I wanted everyone in there and we've had pieces coming as well as students. They are pharmacists, but they're not yet to be pharmacists. Like I wanted it to be inclusive for everyone. one the main steps we took in forming the group was making it exclusive for LGBTQIA people. So
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (38:53.538)
the most important.
Speaker 1 (39:02.102)
If people did not identify under that umbrella, so basically if you were heterosexual
So me, how boring As my stepdaughter says to me, Krysti you're just a basic millennial girl I'm like yes and no but I love it and I embrace it right?
Hahaha
Speaker 3 (39:20.974)
Please do.
If anything, I'm also a basic millennial.
But you know, we...
There are secrets out there for pharmacists already that you can go into and discuss pharmacist things and issues. And with an intentional and necessary decision, not out of exclusion, obviously, but for protection. Because as well, many LGBTQIA pharmacists are not out in their workplaces because it's still an industry that's very cis, white, I dare say male dominated with
So many.
Speaker 1 (39:56.526)
lots of closed minded views, unfortunately, you know, within wider professional circles. many of their pharmacists, think that are in the group, we wanted them to engage with that fear of being outed, which is still again, it's such a, it was to start of this podcast, like, why do you have to come out? But also, why should people in 2025 be discriminated against for being out?
you know many
Speaker 3 (40:23.662)
out.
or being outed and additionally maintaining a closed space helps safeguard our discussions from bad faith actors and online harassment. Issues that unfortunately remain prevalent in queer communities. There's still lots of microaggressions that can happen online and in person unfortunately for our marginalized groups. But on that note as well, we worked on launching a sub-staff as an extension of the group.
you know, and
Speaker 1 (40:53.57)
we're actively encouraging publications for LGBTQIA pharmacists and allies as well, because we understand that allies are so important and people who actively want to practice and be an ally can be really helpful and can help push for that goal of equality for all. the goal is to refine and organize the discussion.
in making them more accessible for those looking to integrate these insights into their daily practice and expand their knowledge of our community and health care topics as well.
I think that's really, really important. But I think, I guess both topics there and the fact that you and the rest of the team made that conscious decision to truly make it a safe space. I think that is, is really important and it doesn't, it's not an exclusion thing at all. I actually think it's, it's the right thing to do. And it's similar for, I'm actually part of a very small group.
of us who have ADHD or identify as neurodiversion. And yeah, there are some people that haven't even, I guess they haven't come out to the industry or to people in that sense. and sometimes you just want to talk without a fear of any judgment or anything like that. Not that people will, but, sometimes when people haven't experienced the same things that you do, they don't understand. then
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:26.144)
whether it's intentional or unintentional judgment. Yeah, I think it's a smart thing that you don't know. But I found these results. I don't need to can hear that. But my Google is now something
I did just hear her
that slay
Yay!
Now, Daddy, what is next for you? Do you have any idea? Probably yes, you probably got a million ideas or things that you want to achieve, would you?
Speaker 3 (42:53.291)
I
really crazy. I was listening to the podcast and like there was a quote that I think you said about like your plate is already full. You need to like have a little bit before you can add more. That you're like this because they're so similar. I'm just guilty of filing more and more and more. I guess right now my focus is growing the community but queer pharmacists of Australia continuing to push for more inclusivity in pharmacy.
I always want to be more writing and advocacy work, particularly around transgender health care and cultural competence in pharmacy practice. There's still so much work to do and I want to be part of that driving change. And as you said at the start of this, I am also a B, a pharmacist. I'm very aware I have so much to learn and I'm excited to sponge as much as I can as well.
And
I love that. think that's even once you're not officially an early career pharmacist. And I'm so sad because as this is my last year officially as an early career pharmacist. I get how devastating.
Speaker 3 (44:04.6)
You gonna use
kicked out
No, hey, why?
You have been removed from this life.
Speaker 2 (44:18.004)
No, I know that won't happen. That's so, so inclusive. But I think, yeah, you write in, and this is actually what I love about doing the podcast, because sometimes the bits when it's these kind of intermediary things, that's where like bits of gold come out. And I'm like, I'm gonna keep this. But Danny, I'm so excited for to see your future and where it it heads. If one thing is in your passion for the community that you represent, but then also for
anyone that walks into a pharmacy, I think that is really special. And I hope you never lose that because I think, yeah, whenever you do something and you have that passion behind it, I really think that you can achieve anything. I think especially having that passion when things are really tough and odds are stacked against you. But if you have that driving force behind you, other people might be thinking, oh my gosh, why are they trying to do this and why are they trying to change the world? you do have.
I think you mentioned earlier like a ripple effect and there'll be people that you don't even know that you are impacting and then they'll go on to impact someone else which is really nice.
Yeah, I think that authenticity and resilience go hand in hand, right? Living authentically isn't always easy. There are times when you feel like you have to prove yourself twice as hard and I that's for everyone. Or when your face pushed back simply for being who you are. But when you fight for the space to be yourself, you open doors you never imagined possible. Not just for yourself, but for others who come after you. So basically just reiterating what you just said, right?
Honestly, I actually want to take a moment to give a well-deserved shout out to you.
Speaker 2 (46:04.758)
Thank you.
Like I said, I remember being in for a pharmacy at University of Newcastle struggling as a mother constantly hearing the same narrative. I was out. I was too much. was
from workplace
Speaker 3 (46:21.454)
to last.
Speaker 3 (46:25.742)
Like two It's crazy
Female, which is right, like it was like, all these things seem to be a bad thing. And I was like, what is going on? And like these microaggressions from senior pharmacists were really wearing me down. And I was already questioning whether I had lost my passion for pharmacy before my career had even begun. And that's an all common narrative that I really now like want to like nip in the butt and like try and encourage, but not even encourage just be like, look, don't let that
that thought, give it some time, then like throw it out, right? And, you know, I went.
too.
He's a electric pharmacist, which is soon to be kicked out of. Well, I received this in front, especially from you. I felt like a bear hug out of nowhere. You immediately got into the opportunity to write that first article on your form and that moment meant everything.
Speaker 3 (47:21.422)
I was like, wow, this is it. This is what you are.
I wanted to do. I want to write about advocacy. I started and what I'm for and you gave me a platform and you didn't have to do that. And I think that that's amazing. I'm really thankful. Like more than you'll ever know.
write about where I
Speaker 2 (47:39.468)
Thank you, that means so much to me. And I think the thing that, yeah, frustrated me was that, you're experiencing those challenges and, but it was also really amazing that you actually reached out and in such a public forum as well, like that pretty wild.
Yeah, talk about anxiety.
Society overload.
Like what? Where like most people probably like start typing and then just delete it and not even actually do it. But yeah, I just thought, my gosh, not that I experienced the same thing as you, but when I was earlier in my career, there were moments where I felt like that pharmacy wasn't for me. And I just thought, no, like this is, don't want another person to have to experience that. Like there's so much more and that's why I reached out to you.
And I'm so glad I did. And I'm actually so glad that you took that step to actually coast because that's a very hard thing to do.
Speaker 3 (48:38.83)
Yeah, look.
still, you know, we'll face those microaggressions daily. And since having my internship finished, and I'd moved on from that, I found an incredible team, like I said, at Terry Light Tuggera. And I have senior peers now who are nothing but supportive. And that's outside of where I work as yourself. There's people in different parts of pharmacy that I never thought I would interact with that have just like taken me under their wing and like,
leader leaders of pharmacy who have reached out to check in and I think once you find that community it really does help. And we mentioned it a bit off script or offline that last week I attended that Terry White masterclass and I found myself surrounded by like Tenei pharmacy celebrities.
Yes.
And I read about it messaged you. I was like
Speaker 1 (49:32.926)
my god, I'm wearing a hoodie and tie.
What if I... And I was very nervous.
Yeah.
And then before I knew it, there were people like Kate Dunthorpe who's pushing for pharmacy describing. And then Brenton Hart who's like, you know, a beautiful man who's the figurehead of Terry White. And then Dan Hillier who's just like such an energy of love, all from Terry White. And they were welcoming as if I'd been a part of the team for decades. And that again, like everyone has been.
that mean so far?
Speaker 1 (50:09.91)
And I'm so thankful. was such a beautiful experience. I truly feel lucky to be working in pharmacy. Like I feel lucky to have everyone who we have with us. And so I guess the takeaway point I want to push away is like, there's going to be time, just going to be really hard. And you might have to sit with that for a year or two. Like internship was really hard and that's a common experience. Finding, find your community, find what's your drive.
and you'll find the people. I found so many people. Like, I'm living, like I said, the best life. I would not change it for anything.
That's just the best way to end the podcast on that positive night. I love it. yeah, shout out to the team at Terry White, Todd Rowe, for embracing your authentic self. I love it. yeah, I think my key takeaway point is exactly what you said is, yeah, if anyone out there is kind of feeling like they're not sure if whatever they're doing is maybe not the right thing. Yeah, maybe.
Reach out, try and connect with some different people. Be bold and brave to maybe reach out to people and you never know where that can lead you.
it all.
Speaker 1 (51:28.558)
DM us
p-stardom. Just like me?
Yes, definitely don't have to do that. Slide into someone's DMs and you know, I've done that actually. Now I've taken my advice and started doing that with some people and yeah, it's really quite amazing actually that the people that respond that you think, my gosh, they probably don't even know who I am. As you said, pharmacy celebrities. And then at the end of the day, they're just people, just like you and I.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (51:59.17)
Well, Deni, thank you so much for sharing your deeply personal story with us and the listeners today. Again, I really just wanted to say that your journey is really a testament of the power of self discovery, being your authentic self and even just trying to determine what that is and the impact of what one person can have in creating change in healthcare and for you as that pharmacist.
But if when you walked into the pharmacy and yet that complete come almost completely changed your trajectory of your whole life. So to our listeners, if you'd like to connect with Deni, I'm sure you can follow her on LinkedIn or check out the queer pharmacist of Australia on Facebook. Thank you for tuning into another podcast episode of your pharmacy crew podcast. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe and share it with your colleagues and Deni.
Thank you so much. Any final words?
Thank you for having me.
You're amazing. I'm excited for your future as well.
Speaker 2 (53:05.384)
I love it.
Share this podcast with your colleagues and join us next time as we continue to explore your pharmacy career journey.
Final Thoughts
Deni Salmon’s story reminds us why healthcare must move beyond prescriptions and protocols. It’s about people. It’s about being seen. And it's about creating spaces where authenticity isn’t just welcomed—it’s protected.
So next time someone walks into your pharmacy—how will you show them they belong?
